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 Boeing747 |
8 Man Football - Coming to a school near you |
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All-State
Posts: 696 05/18/09 2:44 PM Shooter
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http://www.freep.com/article/20090518/HSS/90518070/MHSAA+approvesman+football+for+2010
Eight man football approved for the 2010 season for schools with under 223 students. |
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 semperfi9 |
#1 | |||
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Freshmen
Unranked Walkon 
Posts: 14 05/18/09 7:29 PM |
Eight man football is a great idea for the schools too small ,it is done in States where the population is small and scattered . it is also played in the
Marine Corp , and was a hell of a lot of fun . The game is fast and wide open .
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Searn |
#2 | |||
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
Posts: 7252 05/18/09 7:40 PM Board Owner |
I prefer 9 man football
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BIGREDS89 |
#3 | |||
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All-Searn 2nd Team
Posts: 1509 05/18/09 8:13 PM |
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/marinercoachkk/singlewing.gif
Last Edited By: BIGREDS89 05/19/09 11:59 AM.
Edited 1 time.
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uaw594 |
#4 | |||
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Freshmen
Unranked Walkon 
Posts: 4 05/18/09 9:30 PM |
Watch out for that LT kid he can block any field goal, I think he is gonna be a all-stater |
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TNTDyno |
#5 | |||
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All-Searn H.M.
Posts: 1394 05/19/09 8:24 AM South-Central Mich.
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I have been on the fence regarding 8 man football. After watching some smaller Class D teams play, I think it is probably a pretty good idea. I've seen too
many small schools dressing less than 20 kids, and if you factor in an injury or two, they simply cannot field a team that can function, let alone be
competitive.
I'll be very interested to see how many whole conferences opt to go to 8 man football. For example, I could see the the smaller SCAA schools opting to go together, so at least they could maintain a regular season schedule along with the playoffs. "The common man revels in HAVING WON. The champion finds his satisfaction in WINNING." - F.H. Yost
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Mr NCAA |
#6 | |||
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First, I'm against the 8 man football proposal since teams can always form a football co - op program with another school if they are really that
interested in potential injuries. There is the law of unintended consequences so I hope that the MHSAA thought this through since I came up with around 3 or 4
just last night alone.
Searn, could you edit BigReds89 post so it doesn't stretch the post out horizonitally? |
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BIGREDS89 |
#7 | |||
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All-Searn 2nd Team
Posts: 1510 05/19/09 12:00 PM |
I fixed it for you NCAA, that is annoying when they get stretched like that but it was my first reaction. I am against 8 man football as you can see.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/marinercoachkk/singlewing.gif
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SnoozeToMe |
#8 | |||
BIGREDS89 wrote: BR89 - Thanks for fixing your post, and also for clearing up what it was you were so against. At first glance, I thought you were against Searn's Tecmo Bowl video game. 
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BIGREDS89 |
#9 | |||
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All-Searn 2nd Team
Posts: 1511 05/19/09 3:06 PM |
Tecmo Bowl GOOD. 8 man football not good. Who wants to play some Tecmo Bowl. I get the Chiefs.
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/marinercoachkk/singlewing.gif
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Searn |
#10 | |||
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All-Searn Hall of Fame
Posts: 7258 05/19/09 3:52 PM Board Owner |
BIGREDS89 wrote: I don't think the Chiefs were in the original Tecmo Bowl .... but they were pretty good in Tecmo Super Bowl...� Derrick Thomas and Percy Snow were dominant on defense and Okoye a beast running the ball. |
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Mr NCAA |
#11 | |||
As of 2007 schools in Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Nevada, Oklahoma, Oregon, Washington And Tennessee had eight man football.
Thanks BigReds89 for tidying it up. I knew that you were against this 8 man football as well.
Last Edited By: Mr NCAA 05/19/09 4:11 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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uaw594 |
#12 | |||
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Freshmen
Unranked Walkon
Posts: 5 05/19/09 6:21 PM |
Personally I'm not a big fan of 8 man football but i don't think we should deny the sport for kids at smaller schools
and we don't want anyone to get hurt. |
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Mr NCAA |
#13 | |||
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I've never seen an injury study done on a state wide basis that says smaller schools get a disapportionment amount of injuries compared to larger schools.
So does anyone have proof that more injuries occur at the class D level compared to the other classes? I'm not buying it since the harder hits mostly
occur at the higher levels. Those with small teams are actually competing against other small schools with around the same number of players. The MHSAA
wasn't denying anyone a chance to play high school football with their football co - op rule. It was the schools themselves that did it such as what Boyne
City did to Boyne Falls since they wanted to play at a lower division.
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BIGREDS89 |
#14 | |||
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All-Searn 2nd Team
Posts: 1513 05/19/09 11:12 PM |
Searn wrote: Yeah you are�right it was Super Tecmo bowl and don't�forget to give some props to Barry Word as well. Although it�is wierd to think that the fullback was slighly�smaller than the tailback on that team.� It was funny watching those guys run on that game and tacklers bouncing off�both of them left and right. ��
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k245/marinercoachkk/singlewing.gif
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prepseer |
8-Man Football | #15 | ||
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While this might be good for a very few small schools, I think the unintended consequences will hurt the regular MHSAA playoffs. The primary effects will be
the change in Division 8 and a major increase in the number of 5-4 and 4-4 teams that make the playoffs.
Larger schools that were formerly Division 7 will be forced down to Division 8. This will hurt the chances of of the smaller Division 8 schools who chose to stay with 11 man football. Overall, the playoffs will be watered down by more at-large teams. If half of the Class D schools who choose to play 8-man football instead of 11 man football, were programs that would normally have qualified for the playoffs, that will create more openings for at-large teams. I guess this is good if you are a 5-4 (of 4-4) team without a strong POP, that's good news; it gives you a better chance of making the playoffs. Since the MHSAA probably wants as many teams as possible in the playoffs, this could actually be one of the reasons behind the formation of the 8-man football division. Because of the downward movement in Division that will result from less Class D schools, it will be harder for borderline teams to make it into more competitive higher divisions. For teams that would prefer to play in less competitive divisions, this move would be good news not bad news. I haven't looked at this year's enrollment numbers, but based on previous years playoff division cut-offs, some borderline teams that could be affected: Lowell (Div. 2/3), Allen Park (2/3), DeLaSalle (1/2), Midland (1/2), Davison (1/2), Livonia Franklin (1/2), East Grand Rapids (3/4), Inkster (3/4), Orchard Lake St. Mary's (2/3), F.H. Harrison (2/3), Bloomfield Hills Lahser (3/4) Maybe Mr. NCAA could weigh-in with some more accurate projections, but I've got to believe there will be some big surprises with teams playing in divisions lower than they ever have since the playoffs began. I don't know if it would help, but one approach would be for the MHSAA to decrease the number of divisions to 7 and decrease the number of playoff teams from 256 to 224. There would still be 32 teams per division. That would eliminate the increase in the number of 5-4 teams making the playoffs and minimize the water-down effect of the 8-Man Football. |
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TNTDyno |
#16 | |||
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All-Searn H.M.
Posts: 1395 05/20/09 10:37 AM South-Central Mich.
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OK, looks like I'm nearly by myself in supporting 8 man football. Part of the reason is that I played football at a small school, and we had trouble
keeping enough healthy bodies to even be close to competitive. My school had about 160 kids, and at the end of the season, we were dressing about 18 kids, with
five injuries. 8 of us played both ways.
Here are the points I would make: 1. I don't know that there are more injuries, but one injury percentage wise can negatively effect your roster, especially since you are likely playing a large number of kids both ways. If your best player gets hurt, you are in deep trouble. My example: Homer in 2007. Their QB and also best player got hurt (in the first game, I think), and they went from what was generally thought to be a playoff team to sitting out after week 9. 2. I understand Mr. NCAA's thoughts about getting 20 boys out of 47 to play. However, I would reply that based on an even distribution, half of those kids (let's say 24) are freshmen and sophomores. Assuming none of the freshman (12 for this example) are physically mature enough to play, your pool goes to 35. Reduce that again for sophomores not physically ready (let's say 6), and you are down to 29 available bodies. Some of these kids have to be assumed as non-athletes, and you can get to 20 or below in a hurry. See #1 above as to what can then happen to your roster. 3. Full contact practices and full squad scrimmages are darn near impossible with less than 25 kids if you are playing 11 man ball. 8 man ball would allow 20 member teams to at least replicate what they would see in a game situation, and hopefully improve the level of play. 4. I do understand the concern over the effect to the current playoff structure. I do think that if enough teams move to 8 man ball, the MHSAA should downsize the current 8 class format to 5 or 6. 5. The co-op idea has always been nice in theory, but I can't name off hand one co-op that has had any football success. Yes, it might allow you to play 11 man ball, but it does nothing for your competitive standing. Just my thoughts on the topic. BTW, I'll take the 49ers with Joe Montana at QB for Tecmo Bowl. I used to love to have him scramble. "The common man revels in HAVING WON. The champion finds his satisfaction in WINNING." - F.H. Yost
Last Edited By: TNTDyno 05/20/09 10:43 AM.
Edited 1 time.
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prepseer |
TNT | #17 | ||
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I'm not necessarily against 8-Man Football, I'm just saying there will be unintended consequences. Best solution would be to make all Division 8 level
schools 8-Man and reduce the number of Divisions in the MHSAA playoffs to 7--with the same number of teams per division. You would have to carve up Class D
based on historical placements in Division 8.
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Mr NCAA |
#18 | |||
Maybe Mr. NCAA could weigh-in with some more accurate projections, but I've got to believe there will be some big surprises with teams playing in divisions lower than they ever have since the playoffs began. I don't know if it would help, but one approach would be for the MHSAA to decrease the number of divisions to 7 and decrease the number of playoff teams from 256 to 224. There would still be 32 teams per division. That would eliminate the increase in the number of 5-4 teams making the playoffs and minimize the water-down effect of the 8-Man Football. I will attempt to try to do the average division breakpoints next year based on how many schools actually go to 8 man football. I'm not projecting the number of teams since I've read different amounts. Just like I wait for the official school closings or combining before making an official announcement (there have been some of these that I have been told about but not yet posted since the school boards haven't officially approved them yet). I didn't list all my potential unintended consequences. E. G. suppose a team is in Class D currently and wants to play 8 man football. So then the school has to join a league with 8 man football. Now the following year the school bumps up to Class C and isn't eligible for 8 man football. The school would be left scrambling for a new league to join or become an independent and make a whole season schedule after the SEN is released in March or April. So this proposal penalizes schools who go back and forth between Class C and Class D. Plus what league is going to accept a school like that since you can't count on the team being in the league?
Last Edited By: Mr NCAA 05/20/09 12:39 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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Mr NCAA |
#19 | |||
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I want to point out that TNTDyno's example of Homer doesn't get enough relief since they are a Class C school. So the numbers should be over twice
of what I gave - something TNTDyno didn't take into consideration. I emailed you with a list of teams that probably won state championships by having a co
- op program (or they currently do and co - op programs have been around for a long time).
I have seen injuries play a role on hurting Class A teams including Adrian just last year as well if people want to say that teams lose star players at the lower class levels. Heck East Lansing had their 3 best players injured during a playoff game against Flint Southwestern back in the old days so they lost the next week. |
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KleShreen |
#20 | |||
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All-State
Posts: 744 05/27/09 3:12 PM |
I'm most interested in seeing how this affects things from a college recruiting standpoint.
Grand Valley State - NATIONAL CHAMPS AGAIN! ('02 '03 '05 '06 baby!)  |
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