Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Searn) — Fri, 05 Jun 2009 20:13:22 GMT

Harrison could actually be a decent example why not to commit to playing up (for long periods of time at least)....

During a long stretch Harrison could have played in any division and won titles ( though I don't believe as many as they did ) .... but today they have simply become a very good Division 2/3 program ... nothing that special. .... even programs like Harrison have down times ... so I'm not sure playing up for long terms is such a great idea for some programs ......

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Blue) — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:12:10 GMT

Back in 1998(wow I'm getting old) --- there were two teams that were to be head and shoulders above the rest -- and both defending state champs.

Detroit Catholic Central --- 1997 Class AA Champs
Farmington Hills Harrison --- 1997 Class A Champs

Both teams were rated nationally to start the season (with CC being a few spots ahead at each update). There was a mini rivalry that year between two teams that have never played and have still never played to date....

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (EastGuRu) — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:24:18 GMT

Searn wrote:
By the way ... a legit reason why it wouldn't work to let a teams decide to play up at the end of the regular season ....

It would screw up the playoff points.

I don't know. That shouldn't be that big of a problem. Those points are calculated via computer based on the school being designated as a classB school (base of 64 points). All they would have to do is change the base to...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (ftballfan) — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:27:46 GMT

The only school that should opt down is Marquette. They are the only Class A school in the UP. Time for the MHSAA to allow them to opt down to Class B.

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Searn) — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:39:09 GMT

By the way ... a legit reason why it wouldn't work to let a teams decide to play up at the end of the regular season ....

It would screw up the playoff points.

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (SnoozeToMe) — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:33:38 GMT

EastGuRu wrote:
I also wonder: If you gave a 17 year old kid, who probably knows this is his last year to ever play organized football in his life, the option of staying in your assigned division and winning a championship vs. opting up and getting eliminated in the X round..............which would he choose? I don't know. Maybe a player who lurks here can answer that, because I'm sure it's alot easier for us old...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (EastGuRu) — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:45:36 GMT

No way on the "opt down" option. That would just be lame, not to mention unfair to smaller schools. After thinking about this for a while I would be fine with opting up solely for competitive reasons if you could make the decision some time late in the season, say right after you qualify for the playoffs but before your next game. IMO there are just too many unknowns before a season starts, much less before a season three years from now starts. This would also give a coach the...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Searn) — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:07:45 GMT

KleShreen wrote:
So should a team struggling in sports be able to opt down?

Hmmm ... probably not ... but chances are it wouldn't matter anyway ... .since in football a team really struggling probably wouldn't make the playoffs in most cases.

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Searn) — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 17:06:36 GMT

EastGuRu wrote:

I just thought of something. We've been talking mostly about EGR but I'm thinking what would have happened to Lowell the past couple of years had they opted up to D1 (I know that's not currently possible). I'm betting they might have fared better as they may have matched up better with Rockford than Muskegon. Just a thought.
...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (KleShreen) — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:26:08 GMT

So should a team struggling in sports be able to opt down?

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (EastGuRu) — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:08:15 GMT

I just thought of something. We've been talking mostly about EGR but I'm thinking what would have happened to Lowell the past couple of years had they opted up to D1 (I know that's not currently possible). I'm betting they might have fared better as they may have matched up better with Rockford than Muskegon. Just a thought.

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Searn) — Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:34:22 GMT

EastGuRu wrote:
So, Searn, here's a question for you: Let's say EGR goes undefeated regular season and loses in the semi's of D2 to, let's say, BBR. BBR goes on to win state. Alternatively, EGR stays in D3 and beats OLSM for the D3 title. Which team gets ranked higher in the final 32?? Let's assume that OLSM and BBR split their regular season games or had a close single game.

I know there are...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (EastGuRu) — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:09:19 GMT

So, Searn, here's a question for you: Let's say EGR goes undefeated regular season and loses in the semi's of D2 to, let's say, BBR. BBR goes on to win state. Alternatively, EGR stays in D3 and beats OLSM for the D3 title. Which team gets ranked higher in the final 32?? Let's assume that OLSM and BBR split their regular season games or had a close single game.

I know there are lots of "it depends" scenarios, but humor me. My purpose is not to argue for...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Searn) — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:29:48 GMT

I'd be proud on a whole new level if EGR opted up to compete in D2, even if it meant losing in the districts more often than not (which would likely be against teams like Lowell, Muskegon and Hudsonville).

Anybody would have to respect a team that would choose to set the bar even higher than a state title against their peers, and then really had to struggle to reach that goal. They would likely "fail" most years, but the prize would be that...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (SnoozeToMe) — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:56:14 GMT

Although it has strayed from the original "darkhorse" topic, this has been an interesting discussion.

I am a proud EGR fan, yet I sit directly on the fence on the subject of opting up.

There is nothing in EastGuRu's position that I can disagree with (apart from the slightly misguided stats ). There is absolutely no shame in winning D3 championships against teams that are (usually) larger than their...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (EastGuRu) — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 11:58:06 GMT

I completely see both you and MrNcaa's point. I don't necessarily agree but your points are reasonable. Stuursma puts on a camp every summer that my kids attend. If I get a chance to chat with him I'll casually ask him if he's ever thought about it or if it was ever discussed among coaches, staff or players. Might be interesting to hear his response.

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Searn) — Sat, 30 May 2009 10:41:50 GMT

I guess perhaps it's less of a process for OLSM to play up in basketball and football having their head coach in those sports also being the AD. ... I don't know about all those other groups ... but if the AD and coach are on the same page with it ... I think it's probably a done deal either way.

You are right it's probably to have that opinion as a fan compared to a coach or and AD... but the thing is that programs in the position to think about playing up have...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (EastGuRu) — Sat, 30 May 2009 03:50:04 GMT

Fair enough guys. I'd be interested to hear an EGR coaches perspective on those opinions, or any coach for that matter. In other words, there must be legitimate reasons they don't opt up. It's a pretty common thing to hear from all coaches that at the start of the season you really don't know what you have, total team-wise, until a few games into the season. And, I don't think that is all bluster and posturing. I've coached enough at the lower levels to know that kids...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Mr NCAA) — Sat, 30 May 2009 01:09:46 GMT

Searn and I both agree on a ton in this area. However, EGR has won 5 state championships in football since 2002, Cranbrook only 4 in hockey. I have posted on here about the Illinois split the difference SEN wise scheduling for football on here before, but would apply it in other sports as well. I did say to limit it to 6 years and then revert back and win a couple more before "opting up" once again if they don't win a state championship during those 6 years. No one is suggesting...

Re: Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Searn) — Fri, 29 May 2009 21:08:43 GMT

I don't begrudge any school for playing at their own enrollment level, especially a public school ... but that's just my own competitiveness talking ... I know if I were an EGR fan/player/alum/etc. .... I would personally hope my team would take on the challenge and opt up.

Enrollment is a decent guage overall which is why it's a good way to determine classes/divisions ... but sometimes there are sports programs are not at the same level as the school enrollment ... such...

Should a team choose to "opt up" for competitive reasons?

feeds@yuku.com (Searn) — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:15:58 GMT

As some have figured out I decided to split the topics ... this came up in the D3 topic, we know EGR has been dominant in D3 for some time now ... is it time they "opt up" for the challenge to play in D2?

EGR is an elite program .... though it would have been a lot of fun to see them play up to class A (Division 2) the past 8 seasons.

Imagine the matchups with Muskegon, Hudsonville and such ..